Experimental IRC log happs-2007-04-14

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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.

03:08:58<dmead>hey
03:09:03<dmead>can you guys call haps
03:09:07<dmead>*happs
03:09:09<dmead>instead of happs
03:09:10<dmead>like
03:09:18<dmead>haskell in hyperspace
03:09:22<dmead>or haskell in helicopters
08:32:20<fuzan>http://hpaste.org/1382
08:32:38<fuzan>I've modified a tutorial snippet, and I cna't seem to get either it or this to compile
08:32:47<fuzan>http://happs.org/HAppS/doc/tutorial.html
08:33:35<fuzan>i've annotated the error message.
08:40:32<fuzan>i've stared at the doucmentation, I just can't figure what's wrong.
08:59:33<vegai>dmead: I'm guessing "no" :)
09:01:12<vegai>fuzan: I have an idea, I'll just check if it's that...
09:04:43<fuzan>also, I can't seem to figure out where "plain" is defined
09:04:50<fuzan>http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/HAppS_tutorial#XML_with_style
09:11:03<vegai>I'm guessing plain might be coming from haxml
09:11:54<fuzan>vegai: any idea what might be causing the other error?
09:13:26<vegai>just a minute, I'm building happs-0.8.8 on one of my boxes
09:13:55<fuzan>it was working with .8.4
09:14:05<fuzan>it doesn't work with anything >=8.8
09:14:20<vegai>Ohh
09:14:28<vegai>Things have changed a lot in that time
09:14:46<vegai>check the tutorial in the topic
09:15:16<vegai>or did you do that already?
09:15:26<fuzan>that's what I"m doing
09:15:36<fuzan>firstly, i have no idea where plain is defined
09:15:41<fuzan>nor does the example compile on my machine
09:15:46<fuzan>"xml with style"
09:23:19<fuzan>ACTION dislikes "plain"
09:23:33<vegai>I agree
09:23:55<fuzan>http://tuukka.iki.fi/tmp/happs-2007-03-19.html
09:23:58<vegai>and it'd be nice if the tutorial would import everything it uses qualified
09:23:59<fuzan>heh, same deal
09:24:53<dufflebunk>Hackage lists the latest happs at 0.8.4, and has not link to the happs web site.
10:08:46<Saizan>fuzan: you should follow http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/HAppS_tutorial if you are using 0.8.8
10:09:22<Saizan>plain, xml, html, etc.. are all gone, their functionality is replaced by instances of ToMessage
10:10:29<Saizan>they were in HAppS.Protocols.SimpleHTTP2 however
10:23:20<Saizan>fuzan: http://hpaste.org/1382#a2 <-- as an example of the new api
20:00:12<fuzan>Saizan: Thanks a lot, this helps a bit :)
20:01:40<Saizan>fuzan: feel free to ask again and/or report non-compiling code int eh new tutorial
20:03:26<fuzan>Saizan: alright. Hopefully one day I'll have enough time to contribute if I find myself enjoying HAppS
20:03:35<fuzan>b
20:07:41<fuzan>are there any preferences between using xml and xhtml?
20:08:23<Saizan>what you mean?
20:09:21<dmhouse>fuzan: yes, XHTML is a markup language based on XML, whereas HTML is a markup language based on SGML.
20:10:04<dmhouse>XML defines simply the structure of the tags, and rules such as an inner tag must close before an outer one does (I.e. <p><a></p></a> is illegal), but doesn't define a standard set of tags or attributes, nor attribute semantics to those tags.
20:10:08<dmhouse>XHTML does all of those things.
20:10:37<fuzan>hmm, looks like I should do some reading.
20:11:54<fuzan>what I meant to ask is, should I generate code directly into elements like <div>,<span>, or should I generate XML and use xsl/css to style?
20:12:39<fuzan>using elements like, <Object1>foo</Object1>
20:13:02<Saizan>xsl can free you from hardcoding the way you display your data in the program
20:13:33<dmhouse>Well, the former's easier.
20:13:43<xerox>Saizan, what does the program generate instead of html?
20:14:07<Saizan>xerox, plain xml describing the data
20:16:06<xerox>Saizan, what about the informations that one usually puts in the <head> like title & co?
20:17:35<Saizan>if it's static you can put it directly in the xsl, if not you just insert it in the xml, and the xsl places it in the right tag
20:18:37<xerox>xsl is programmable? is it a programming language?
20:19:13<glguy>it's got conditionals, functions
20:19:20<glguy>recursion
20:19:21<Saizan>yeah, a data-driven functional one with xml syntax :)
20:19:42<Saizan>imports
20:20:08<Saizan>scoping is a bit tricky from what i've experienced
20:20:15<fuzan>is it dynamic?
20:21:23<fuzan>(scoping)
20:21:30<Saizan>mmh
20:21:48<xerox>wow, I never programmed in a language with xml syntax :)
20:23:01<dmhouse>I've seen someone define a prime-finding algorthim in XSLT.
20:23:21<Saizan>fuzan: i don't think so
20:23:49<fuzan>we need XSLT on the language shootout then :)
20:23:52<xerox>dmhouse, got a link to the source?
20:24:11<dmhouse>xerox: nah, don't remember, sorry.
20:24:27<xerox>Saizan, I guess xsl is then interpreted by the web browser?
20:24:52<dmhouse>xerox: yes, most browsers implement XSLT, but you can also do the transformations serverside.
20:24:58<dmhouse>Which is what HAppS does, I think.
20:25:12<Saizan>the default is to send it to the browser
20:25:18<dmhouse>(It makes sense; it's the most portable way of doing things and it also hides your internal XML from the client.)
20:25:22<glguy>HAppS will pass xml to browsers that can understand xml+xsl/t
20:25:29<glguy>and will do the transformation itself otherwise
20:25:46<xerox>xsl xslt, someone expand the acronyms please (:
20:26:31<glguy>xsl is a stylesheet language for xml
20:26:49<dmhouse>http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/default.asp
20:26:53<glguy>xslt is a subset
20:26:59<glguy>used for transforming documents
20:27:25<dmhouse>XSLT is what you use for transforming one type of XML (normally your internal XML representation) to another (normally XHTML).
20:27:47<glguy>xslt can be used to transform xml into any other text format
20:27:58<glguy>any might be a stretch :) but
20:27:59<dmhouse>Yeah, that's true.
20:28:11<glguy>it doesn't have requirements on the output being xml based
20:28:27<dmhouse>XSL covers a few other things, like XPath.
20:28:41<dmhouse>(XPath is a way of specifying elements within an XML tree.)
20:29:08<xerox>An XML zipper? :)
20:29:12<dmhouse>I.e. "/foo/bar/*" selects all the children of bar, which is a child of foo, which is a child of the root.
20:29:21<glguy>*?
20:29:25<dmhouse>And you can do cool conditional selects based on attributes and so on.
20:30:06<glguy>are you sure there is a * in XPath
20:30:13<glguy>oh
20:30:15<glguy>yeah, there it is :)
20:30:18<dmhouse>http://www.w3schools.com is a great place to learn about stuff like this.
20:31:03<dmhouse>"/bookstore/book[price>35]/title" is another XPath example pulled off their site. "price" is an attribute of the <book> element.
20:31:33<xerox>dmhouse, which software does answer XPath queries?
20:32:11<dmhouse>xerox: erm, well, if your browser implements XSL it'll implement XPath, as XPath is a part of XSL. Javascript should do it too, I think. Other than that, not sure.
20:32:34<dmhouse>HXT uses its own funky way of selecting XML elements IIRC, which isn't quite XPath.
20:33:02<xerox>Right, it must have been HaXml.
20:33:22<dmhouse>... or it might be HaXml that I'm thinking of, I honestly don't remember.
21:06:38<dmead>k
21:06:40<dmead>have you guys heard
21:06:45<dmead>happs really needs to be called
21:06:51<dmead>"haskell in hyperspace"
21:06:52<dmead>or
21:07:01<dmead>haskell in helicopters
21:32:57<glguy>Didn't you already do that earlier?
21:32:59<glguy>do you have a virus?
21:36:52<fuzan>I think he _really_ likes hte idea.
21:37:10<fuzan>that would be a cheesy virus :)
21:38:11<glguy>I hate ruby enough to object to anything that resembles ruby on rails
21:45:31<fuzan>i like ruby a little bit more than python :)
23:30:35<nuncanada>It's fun to parody ruby 'thou
23:30:41<nuncanada>haskell on tails
23:30:44<nuncanada>haskell on rockets
23:43:29<dmead>has to start with H
23:43:36<dmead>ruby on rails, python on planes
23:43:38<dmead>etc
23:44:08<stepcut>Haskell on Heroin ?
23:46:10<dmead>:)
23:46:12<dmead>i mean
23:46:15<dmead>drugs are bad...

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