Experimental IRC log happs-2007-08-16

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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.

04:12:55<shapr>hiya stepcut
04:12:58<stepcut>hey
04:13:04<shapr>How's code?
04:13:12<stepcut>was any progress made towards HAppS + EC2 ?
04:13:36<shapr>Yup
04:13:40<stepcut>code is good. I am getting pretty close to a working YHC.Core -> Flash (.swf) compiler
04:13:52<shapr>Whoa, nifty!
04:14:08<stepcut>I hope so :)
04:14:22<shapr>That'll be way cool!
04:15:01<stepcut>yeah
04:15:03<stepcut>I think so
04:15:26<shapr>Anyway, EC2 code is in the repo, and the repo should be released soon.
04:15:30<stepcut>nice
04:15:57<stepcut>how is happs looking overall these days ?
04:16:02<shapr>It's really nice.
04:16:09<stepcut>excellent
04:16:11<shapr>The syb-with-class xml stuff is amazingly nifty.
04:16:35<shapr>$( deriveAll [d| data Tree a = Nil | Branch (Tree a) a (Tree a) deriving (Eq, Show) |] )
04:16:36<shapr>instance Default a => Default (Tree a)
04:16:36<shapr>
04:17:11<shapr>> toXml $ Branch Nil (1 :: Int) \n Nil [Elem "branch" [ Elem "nil" [] CData "1" Elem "nil" []]]
04:18:20<stepcut>how is the xml used in practice? HAppS outputs data is xml, and then you use XSLT to transform it into HTML, etc ?
04:18:53<shapr>Yup
04:18:57<stepcut>spiffy
04:19:02<shapr>Yeh, it is.
04:19:17<shapr>Sometimes I'm not sure if XSLT is better than something like ZPT, but most days I think it's good.
04:19:42<stepcut>I am not wild about XSLT, but I don't know of anything better yet
04:20:10<stepcut>being able to seperate the presentation from the backend code I am wild about
04:20:15<shapr>Yeah, I agree.
04:21:03<stepcut>once I get the flash stuff working, that could be nice -- since flash tends to use XML to communicate with the server
04:21:28<shapr>Yeah, I haven't tried a trick connection from happs, but it would be nifty.
04:22:57<stepcut>completely off-topic, I have a son now: http://picasaweb.google.com/stepcut/LittleHFinallyArrives?authkey=ZrbAoEHs07c
04:23:04<shapr>wow!
04:23:09<stepcut>indeed
04:23:14<shapr>stepcut 2.0!
04:23:33<stepcut>yeah, I tried that, but she wouldn't go for it
04:23:45<shapr>haha
04:24:19<shapr>I like the yawning pic :-)
04:24:53<stepcut>thanks
04:24:53<shapr>stepcut: Why aren't there any pix of you?
04:25:15<stepcut>because I was taking the pictures :)
04:25:31<stepcut>probably some soon, we just got back from the hospital today
04:25:32<shapr>I've only ever seen that one animated gif of you.
04:25:36<stepcut>heh
04:26:33<shapr>8.057 pounds, eh?
04:27:04<stepcut>8 pounds 5 oz = 8.3125 pounds
04:27:22<shapr>Hah, I like the pic with the Nokia 770!
04:27:23<stepcut>though perhaps you prefer, 3.77048658 kilograms
04:27:31<shapr>I gave mine to my significant other also.
04:27:51<stepcut>shapr: yeah, she was reading books on marketing ;)
04:27:54<shapr>hah
04:28:07<shapr>That's my favorite use of a 770 also.
04:28:22<shapr>I'm not sure if I want to buy an 800 though, I don't want closed source wifi/bluetooth.
04:28:28<stepcut>did you ever find a good .ps reader? evince always crashes the machine for me
04:28:31<shapr>Ya know, I was thinking about this..
04:28:47<shapr>Um, evince works for me.
04:28:55<stepcut>nokia pissed me off a bit with how they handled the 770 -> 800 transition, so I am a bit dubious about upgrading
04:29:01<shapr>Yeah, me too
04:29:04<shapr>No support
04:29:23<shapr>And they didn't open source the GUI apps, so we can't fix it ourself.
04:29:52<stepcut>I think they finally open-sourced most of the GUI apps, but I was not able to build the pdf reader last time a I tried
04:29:52<shapr>On the subject of closed source wifi/bluetooth...
04:30:21<shapr>The betamax decision said that VCRs were just fine because they have a significant legal use.
04:30:25<stepcut>the 770 had buggy bluetooth for a long time too -- so it is not like they can claim that the closed source stuff is great
04:30:39<shapr>Seems to me that the FCC should apply the same thing to software radio.
04:31:03<stepcut>for the most part, the FCC should just die
04:31:14<shapr>Heh
04:31:15<shapr>Yup
04:31:22<shapr>They don't do anything useful for me.
04:32:24<shapr>Have you seen my picasa albums? http://picasaweb.google.com/shae.erisson
04:32:55<shapr>Not that I've done any unicycling since I tore a ligament in my knee :-(
04:33:48<stepcut>no, I have not seen these yet
04:33:51<stepcut>sucks about the knee
04:34:25<shapr>Yeah, I was trying to show off for my girlfriend :-)
04:34:39<stepcut>haha
04:34:43<stepcut>serves you right ;)
04:34:48<shapr>Yep :-)
04:38:06<stepcut>those are some bad cats :)
04:41:12<shapr>Er, which cats?
04:41:23<shapr>The ones at my mother's house?
04:42:38<shapr>g'day blackdog
04:43:19<stepcut>shapr: all of them ;) especially the one sleeping on sofia
04:43:35<stepcut>i have a cat that looks like pickels
04:44:30<shapr>Pickle got that name by getting trapped in the wall for three days as a kitten.
04:44:35<shapr>He got into a Pickle
04:44:41<stepcut>heh
04:45:41<stepcut>http://www.excellentlivingguide.com/nek0photo.jpg
04:45:58<stepcut>http://www.excellentlivingguide.com/nek0_sm.jpg <-- better version
04:46:31<stepcut>http://www.excellentlivingguide.com/pic_catmolds.jpg
04:46:42<shapr>Nice color
04:46:53<shapr>I've never seen a charcoal colored cat before.
04:47:22<stepcut>he was a stray that wandered in the front door
04:47:35<shapr>Very nice looking
04:47:36<stepcut>he is very big, 18lbs, only a little overweight
04:48:33<shapr>He doesn't look overweight. He also doesn't look that large.
04:48:48<shapr>Probably because he's not against anything with familiar scale.
04:48:53<shapr>Or maybe he's a very dense cat.
04:51:19<kfish>i like that cat
04:53:06<stepcut>since I am showing off cat pitures, here is my cat alice: http://www.excellentlivingguide.com/alice_mirror_sm.jpg
04:53:40<stepcut>on my other cat jane: http://www.excellentlivingguide.com/pic_jane.jpg
04:54:33<shapr>Alice is gorgeous.
04:54:37<shapr>ACTION falls over asleep
04:54:51<stepcut>alice is pretty, but very ill tempered
05:07:35<stepcut>here, I uploaded some more pictures -> http://picasaweb.google.com/stepcut/PetsOfNHeptane
05:22:13<blackdog>heya shapr
05:23:05<blackdog>hey, has anyone done any work on integrating happs with a database? i know the design is to have everything in memory, but it'd be nice to have a db as a backing store so less advanced technologies like Rails can share in the goodness too :)
05:23:37<blackdog>(do i mean backing store? i mean a strictly write-only log)
05:24:54<stepcut>blackdog: I am a bit out of date on HAppS, but at least historically, all the data was written to disk using write-ahead logging
05:25:21<stepcut>so, it sounds like it might be easy to extend it to do strictly write-only log
05:25:32<stepcut>I am not really sure what you are looking for though
05:25:59<stepcut>ACTION goes to bed while he has the chance
05:26:54<blackdog>stepcut: cheers
05:27:07<blackdog>yeah, that's pretty much what i want.
05:28:04<blackdog>but if you wanted to share stuff the other way, i guess you'd have to have happs check the db periodically...
05:28:35<blackdog>i'm just trying to find a better way than what seems to be the standard way - build it around a DB, then do everything you possibly can to not touch the DB for scaling reasons :)
05:29:05<kfish>blackdog, the on-disk state handling in happs seems to work pretty well
05:29:26<kfish>but you want to interface with an existing DB so that the same data can be used from another app (eg. rails)?
05:31:23<blackdog>yep, that's the idea.
05:31:40<blackdog>it's just a much harder sell to say "you don't need a db. honest."
05:32:26<blackdog>i kinda like the energy of the rails guys, but it drives me nuts to see so much done at runtime rather than compile time
05:32:41<kfish>heh
05:32:45<blackdog>both for performance and verification reasons
05:33:12<blackdog>it's incredibly annoying to get runtime errors with something you thought was solid, especially runtime errors which come down to trivial type problems.
05:36:26<kfish>i've done a lot of web programming, but haven't used rails
05:36:53<kfish>i'm wondering (seriously) what it's all about
05:37:05<kfish>ie. what parts of programming workflow it makes simpler
05:37:12<blackdog>honestly, i don't think it's that revolutionary - it's more about code structuring and conventions
05:37:31<blackdog>means that it's pretty easy to pick up another rails app and work out what it's doing once you've learnt those conventions
05:38:22<blackdog>i guess it's a software engineering thing too - a lot of good practices like deployment, source control and testing are baked in
05:38:39<kfish>ok
05:42:15<kfish>i've just been getting into happs recently, and also wondering how maintenance, migration, schema upgrades etc. can work
05:42:59<blackdog>yeah. important questions :)
17:29:21<shapr>blackdog_: nice haircut
23:38:35<blackdog_>cheers shapr - that's an old cut, though. i'm magnificently shaggy at the moment.
23:58:28<blackdog_>_maxm_: am looking through goto_string - how much slop is meant to be tolerated? it's obviously not just substring matching.
23:58:40<blackdog_>argh. again. sorry.

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