Experimental IRC log happs-2008-10-12

Available formats: content-negotiated html turtle (see SIOC for the vocabulary)

Back to channel and daily index: content-negotiated html turtle

These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.

06:43:10<gour>morning
06:44:12<gour>am i right assuming that happs is not for haskell-beginners and it is more suited for high-performance apps, not something which is targetted, in general, by django?
06:47:14<Saizan>gour: happs uses some advanced features of haskell, so it's better to learn the language following a general purpouse tutorial first
06:49:07<Saizan>but i find it works well even for small webapps, there's not a huge infrastructure to setup
06:50:10<gour>Saizan: right. i plan to use haskell for other (desktop) application, but will probably use django/pinax for my web sites...django templates are easy/documented well and i prefer xhtml/css over xslt
06:50:30<Saizan>it probably lacks some additional libraries/prewritten components to be as easy to use as something like django
06:50:56<Saizan>gour: you're not tied to xslt in happs
06:51:11<gour>true...and don't forget there are several quite good books for django in comparison with happs' docs ;)
06:51:19<Saizan>gour: you can generate the html in any way
06:51:34<Saizan>oh, yeah, documentation is the major blocker :)
06:51:41<gour>which template engine can one use?
06:52:16<gour>docs really sucks and if one does not have LOT of time to play with it...
06:52:42<gour>the whole django book is even available online...
06:53:13<gour>i'm aware that using ORM is not the best idea, but for my needs (smaller site) it works
06:54:23<gour>pinax is nice example of using reusable (django) apps to build a nice framework which even non django-devs can use to build web sites in a language (probably) better than php
06:54:30<Saizan>there's a port of StringTemplate, and also HSP
06:54:55<gour>are those 'alive' ? i'm not sure TH is
06:55:12<Saizan>by TH you mean template haskell?
06:55:25<gour>yep
06:56:03<Saizan>sure, e.g. there's a new big feature for TH in ghc-6.10
06:57:17<gour>hmm, i see that HSP says "Embedded XML syntax"...i do not really like to much of XML
06:57:53<Saizan>well, html nowadays is defined as XML
06:58:18<gour>have to go to take breakfast...anyway, having one BOOK about happs with some more components nicely put together could make happs killer app, just as RoR or now Django
06:58:28<gour>ACTION --> breakfast. bbl
07:24:42<gour>ACTION is back
07:26:02<gour>...python is not a special language but its 'batteries included' makes the difference. that's why initiatives like 'haskell platform' and RWH book are very important. let's hope happs will follow
07:30:37<Saizan>the main problem is that there's very little manpower behind happs
07:30:54<gour>heh, chicken & egg or catch-22
07:31:14<gour>lack of doc --> lack of devs...lack of devs --> lack of docs
07:31:38<Saizan>it's going to be used as the hackageDB webserver
07:31:46<Saizan>so that may solve the situation :)
07:32:15<gour>let's hope so...
07:35:24<Saizan>http://happstutorial.com/tutorial/home <-- this tutorial looks promising too
07:35:47<gour>however i see that many haskell 'hackers' are interested for 'research', not so much for 'real world', so in order to bring new non-haskell programmers to happs, docs is essential
07:48:39<gour>right, tutorial is heading in the right direction
07:49:33<Saul_>The lack of documentation really isn't as bad as a year ago
07:49:44<Saul_>I tried happs then but gave up after a few days
07:50:04<Saizan>the library is also in a better shape now
07:50:11<Saul_>Now the API has changed and there are some decent tutorials out there (still no "real" documentation though)
07:51:04<Saul_>Yes that too, although I really couldn't judge that seeing I didn't understand it at all back then
07:57:28<gour>Saul_: i'm quite new with Python, but i'm able to start playing with django/pinax right away following many tutorials, online books etc. happs is quite different, not considering python vs. haskell
07:58:18<Saul_>True, but Django really is way different from happs
07:59:03<gour>i agree...and it seems that django is closer to my web needs than happs
08:00:08<Saul_>Then I suggest you use that
08:00:11<gour>although i'm interested for "
08:00:47<gour>"A web framework for developers to prototype quickly, deploy painlessly" part
08:01:18<Saul_>I think that might be true once you know how to use happs
08:01:26<gour>i.e. not so much about "scale massively.."
08:01:54<Saul_>and you can make weirder things that might be difficult with say Django
08:02:11<Saul_>It's all in-memory, so I don't even believe that is true
08:02:14<gour>it could be, but the learning curve looks very steep with happs without docs
08:03:32<gour>well, i'm interesting for a web-framework with some ready components to build simple web sites and not be forced using php engines, learning php/smarty etc.
08:06:04<Saul_>Well for django it helps to know python and it has it's own template language, so you will still need to learn something
08:06:38<Saul_>If you really don't want to do any programming you might try Joomla (I hated it though)
08:06:50<gour>no need for esoteric things like sharding etc.
08:07:29<Saul_>Most sites don't
08:07:56<Saul_>If you have a site that does, you can spend the time/money to make a decent custom framework yourself
08:08:15<gour>i've dismissed joomla after 30mins...played with CMS Made Simple, but since i need to learn python to tweak another project i find django interesting...however, haskell is candidate as well 'cause i'll do desktop apps qwith gtk2hs
08:08:58<Saul_>I like haskell so I wanted to do my next site in it
08:09:02<gour>however, it looks that learning happs is overkill for my needs
08:09:14<Saul_>I tried it with cgi and hsql, but that became very ugly very quickly
08:09:34<gour>have you seen Pinax?
08:10:13<Saul_>Nope, never heard of it
08:10:35<Saul_>Wikipedia only knows it as a Greek god
08:10:47<gour>see http://pinaxproject.com/
08:10:59<Saul_>Oh wait it's a tablet, not a god
08:11:57<gour>right, tablet in the sense of 'tabula rasa', according to james tauber's talk
13:47:33<MarcWeber>Saizan: What is the new TH feature in ghc-6.10 ? I've missed it's announcment..
13:51:56<Saizan>MarcWeber: the quasiquoting, that let you write things like [$rx|(\w+).*|] for reguralr expressions, etc..
13:52:08<Saizan>where rx is user defined
13:52:13<MarcWeber>Ah, then I've already seen it
13:52:14<Saizan>so you can add custom syntax
13:52:26<Saizan>yeah, it's been in the HEAD for some time
13:52:44<MarcWeber>But I've missed to enable it while compiling. I'll change this..

Back to channel and daily index: content-negotiated html turtle