--- Log opened Sat Jul 11 00:00:14 2009
14:40 < plumenator> How good do I need to be in Haskell to start using happstack? Or building a basic website in haskell?
14:40 < plumenator> using haskell as the scripting language I mean.
14:40 < gwern> build a website? just cheap out and use gitit :)
14:41 < gwern> wikis can do most anything worth doing! if your problem can't be solved by some poorly formatted static pages, then it's not worth solving
14:42 < plumenator> I'm actually trying to learn both Haskell and web programming at the same time.
14:43 < gwern> that's probably not a good idea
14:45 < plumenator> Well the way I see it, programming for the web basically means HTML,CSS etc., database concepts and one of PHP,Python,Perl,Java etc.
14:45 < plumenator> HTML and the like don;t seem very difficult, though I;m no ecpert.
14:45 < gwern> the whole web stack is pretty intrinsically complicated
14:46 < gwern> you don't want to be learning haskell, the abstractions haskellers have developed to deal with all that other stuff, and the other stuff simultaneously
14:46 < plumenator> Yeah, I saw words like combinators somewhere and drew a blank. :-D
14:47 < gwern> not to mention, there are any number of rough edges in the intersections - it's hard enough to learn stuff and fix your own errors, that you don't want to have to worry whether there really is an error in your stuff or somewhere in the stack
14:48 < gwern> seriously, just go through RWH first and then turn to the happs tutorials etc
14:48 < plumenator> That's wht I was going to do.
14:48 < plumenator> I looked Plone for work.
14:49 < plumenator> It was very overwhelming. Is Happstack like that too?
14:49  * gwern doesn't know plone
14:50 < plumenator> Well, Plone is a CMS based on Zope the application server/framework for Python.
14:50 < plumenator> I found it very inacessible.
14:50 < plumenator> Even these other frameworks like dJango seem to assume a lot of knowledge about the web.
14:50 < plumenator> Is Happstak like that too?
14:50 < gcollins> Plone is significantly more complicated than anything like happstack
14:51 < gcollins> Happstack is relatively small and still pretty immature -- you absolutely need to know about the web to use it because you might be put into the situation of fixing bugs in the toolkit
14:52 < plumenator> How does this plan sound? Finish "Learn you a Haskell" ( I already did 6 chapters), then RWH and in parallel HTML,Javascript(basics) and then Happsatck.
14:53 < gwern> pretty reasonable
14:54 < plumenator> Thanks, I just needed to cross check it with someone before I burn myself. :-)
14:54 < gcollins> it wouldn't hurt to read this either: http://www.jmarshall.com/easy/http/
14:56 < plumenator> Cool, an intro to http! Wouldn't the RFC suffice, though?
14:56 < gcollins> it's not as friendly
14:57 < plumenator> Thanks guys, I better finish "Learn you a Haskell" now ;-)
15:04 < sm> I think you need to be pretty darn good with haskell to use happstack
15:04 < sm> but go plumenator
15:05 < sm> happstack+hack+loli, that might work
--- Log closed Sun Jul 12 00:00:14 2009