05:44:41 <rlpowell> stepcut: It's very much a stylistic choice, but I find this more comfortable for me:
05:44:44 <rlpowell> oldsid <- update (IncrementSourceId)
05:44:47 <rlpowell> _ <- update (UpdateSource (ssource { sourceId = oldsid }))
05:44:49 <rlpowell> seeOtherURL (AdminViewSource oldsid)
05:45:03 <rlpowell> ^^ where IncrementSourceId returns the value *before* it was incremented.
05:45:16 <rlpowell> *shrug*  Just thought I'd share, now that the refactored code is actually working.  :D
06:59:10 <Lemmih> donri: New version of acid-state has been released. Thanks.
07:07:07 <donri> thanks yourself!
09:21:08 <donri> http://youtu.be/bQP4wldPX4c haskell-suite talk with sound
14:33:03 <donri> stepcut: have you looked at syb's gsize for memory profiling data structures?
14:33:15 <stepcut> maybe?
14:34:42 <donri> > gsize [True,False]
14:34:43 <lambdabot>   5
14:35:31 <donri> supposedly counts "nodes" in the structure... not sure how relevant, but maybe?
14:35:48 <stepcut> dunno
14:35:52 <donri> :)
14:42:53 <Lemmih> > gsize (\x -> [True,x])
14:42:54 <lambdabot>   1
14:43:07 <Lemmih> /-:
14:45:12 <donri> huh, functions are Data?
14:46:25 <Lemmih> They just have a very boring instance definition.
14:46:29 <Lemmih> s/just/must/
14:46:43 <Lemmih> I guess 'just' could work there as well.
16:49:18 <donri> Lemmih: how about orphan Serialize instances for text and friends in safecopy, so you can use generics instead of TH for SafeCopy more easily?
16:51:22 <Lemmih> eh?
16:52:08 <donri> Lemmih: if i try to use Generic and DefaultSignatures with safecopy I get type errors for missing Serialize Text instances
16:52:28 <Lemmih> Import Data.Serialize?
16:52:38 <Lemmih> Oh, maybe Text doesn't have an instance.
16:52:42 <Lemmih> That would be weird.
16:52:57 <donri> yea, no, no text dependency in cereal or inversely
16:55:15 <donri> i wouldn't personally mind the instance to be in cereal instead, but safecopy already depends on text
16:55:39 <donri> and i suppose we'd have to convince the cereal maintainer?
16:56:24 <Lemmih> But wait, this is a good thing.
16:56:36 <Lemmih> You shouldn't be using cereal directly. Use SafeCopy.
16:56:48 <donri> yea, but DefaultSignatures for SafeCopy relies on Serialize
16:57:09 <Lemmih> And that's very bad. It doesn't buy you any versioning.
16:57:25 <Lemmih> You might as well use cereal or binary then.
16:57:35 <donri> hm well you can do, instance SafeCopy SomeType where version = 2
16:58:19 <donri> it's just that you don't need to write putCopy/getCopy if SomeType is a Generic and Serialize
16:58:21 <Lemmih> Nested types will bite you in the behind.
16:59:00 <donri> not sure i follow
16:59:38 <Lemmih> The neat thing about SafeCopy is that you can change types without worrying about the other types that use them.
16:59:50 <Lemmih> data SuperType = SuperType SubType
16:59:54 <Lemmih> data SubType = ....
17:00:06 <Lemmih> With SafeCopy, we can version SubType indepedently of SuperType.
17:00:38 <Lemmih> If you use DefaultSignatures, you'd have to migrate SuperType when SubType changes.
17:00:43 <donri> ah yea
17:00:50 <donri> so why is default signatures in safecopy at all
17:01:16 <Lemmih> For types that already have sensible Serialize instances.
17:02:06 <Lemmih> It's convenient and it's hard to shoot yourself in the foot.
17:02:14 <donri> but you just said
17:02:48 <Lemmih> You get type errors when you try to use it wrong.
17:04:13 <Lemmih> Imagine that you already have a data type with a Serialize instance. Now you want to use SafeCopy in your application but you want to do it gradually.
17:06:55 <donri> so basically the problem is that you get something like, getCopy = contain $ Contact <$> get <*> get <*> get, which is valid in safecopy but not actually "safe" (as in fully versioned/migrated)?
17:08:30 <Lemmih> Yes.
17:09:27 <donri> but it's still useful for "scalar" types that don't wrap others?
17:10:36 <Lemmih> yeah
17:10:45 <donri> ok got it, thanks!
17:10:47 <Lemmih> I guess. Haven't actually used it.
17:10:52 <donri> heh
17:11:16 <Lemmih> Actually, I'm sitting next to the guy who sent me the code for DefaultSignatures.
17:14:52 <donri> would it maybe be possible to have the default signatures rely directly on Generic instead of Serialize, and then generate code which calls safeGet etc instead of get etc?
17:15:17 <donri> wouldn't that be more useful than what we have currently?
17:15:27 <Lemmih> Possibly.
17:15:30 <Lemmih> Send code.
17:15:39 <donri> :) would you accept it?
17:15:43 <Lemmih> Yeah.
17:16:06 <Lemmih> From you, anything. (:
17:16:09 <donri> will the guy sitting next to you hit me
17:17:21 <Lemmih> Nah, I'll just convince him that his grand idea has stirred up a torrent of follow-up work.
17:17:35 <donri> \o/
17:17:55 <Lemmih> He'll be the grand-daddy of... whatever you decide to hack up. (:
17:18:39 <donri> I wonder if it's worth the work. I mean deriveSafeCopy works fine, but people be hatin' on TH... stepcut said something about generics providing weaker compile-time guarantees than TH though?
18:35:02 <Palmik> Stepcut has quite depressing quit message.
18:40:18 <adnam> :[
18:40:32 <adnam> it's probably incorrect as well
18:46:26 <luite> it also a reference to the M*A*S*H theme song :p
20:12:00 <adnam> \o/ i got a job
20:12:19 <adnam> at silk!
20:12:24 <luite> cool
20:12:45 <luite> what are you going to work on?
20:13:08 <adnam> they only make www.silkapp.com afaik
20:13:13 <adnam> but the position is mainly js dev
20:13:17 <luite> yeah but anything specific?
20:13:19 <luite> oh
20:13:41 <luite> ask them to sponsor ghcjs so you can write the front end in haskell too!
20:14:33 <adnam> hehe i tried to get them to love fay while i was visiting
20:15:00 <adnam> oh this wasn't #fay :P
20:18:53 <adnam> so i'm moving in november, just need to finish my thesis :[
20:20:29 <luite> hehe
20:40:24 <LambdaDusk> is it wise to use reform only for the form processing, not for form rendering?
20:41:36 <luite> adnam: are you going to move to nl? or can you work from sweden?
20:44:46 <adnam> i'm moving
20:45:00 <luite> ah fun
20:45:13 <adnam> we talked about me working from sweden for a bit, but i hate working from home
20:45:14 <luite> legal pot, and cheaper beer! ;p
20:45:22 <adnam> oh yeah
20:45:33 <adnam> not a big pot guy, the beer situation though <3
20:45:36 <donri> LambdaDusk: might be, but you might find digestive-functors more useful then
20:45:48 <adnam> the office is very close to de bierkoning
20:45:49 <LambdaDusk> donri: Does it work with hsp?
20:46:36 <luite> looking for a flat in amsterdam now?
20:46:48 <LambdaDusk> donri: reform-hsp would be a lot more useful with <div> and class/id support
20:46:57 <donri> LambdaDusk: not directly. the package for that only works with the older d-f which doesn't have the new stuff for easier templating anyway
20:47:06 <luite> it's a nice city, but housing is rather expensive...
20:47:11 <donri> LambdaDusk: well there's mapView
20:47:35 <donri> LambdaDusk: https://github.com/dag/happaste/blob/master/src/Happaste/Forms.hs
20:47:52 <donri> it's not awesome, but works
20:48:12 <adnam> luite: yes!
20:48:17 <luite> though the marked collapsed a few years ago, prices have been dropping, but that's mostly for selling
20:48:17 <adnam> and yes!
20:48:18 <adnam> :[
20:48:26 <luite> don't think rental is really affected that much
20:48:43 <LambdaDusk> donri: This could work, too
20:48:44 <adnam> they said it ranges between 600-1100 depending on location
20:48:57 <adnam> i pay 300 in linköping :)
20:49:10 <luite> right, if you really want city center and over 100m2 it could be closer to 2k
20:49:26 <LambdaDusk> I pay 200 in Berlin /
20:49:27 <donri> are those euros
20:49:35 <luite> yeah
20:50:00 <donri> i pay the same number in every currency for housing ^_^
20:50:10 <LambdaDusk> boo
20:50:15 <luite> one hundred billion!
20:50:22 <donri> closer to zero
20:50:30 <adnam> zero:OO
20:50:32 <luite> one zero hundred billion!
20:51:19 <donri> zero billion dollars/yen/rupnu!
20:51:51 <adnam> luite: i'm only looking for one room apts
20:52:04 <adnam> which seem to be the hardest ones to find
20:53:21 <luite> adnam: if you get a low wage job and get on a waiting list for 15 years you might get a social housing flat :p
20:53:31 <adnam> :D yeah i heard about that
20:53:56 <adnam> but that clashes with the fact that i need a minimum salary to qualify for the tax reduction
20:53:57 <luite> problem is that your neighoubrs are probably criminals or foreigners (or both ;p)
20:54:08 <adnam> that's racist
20:54:16 <adnam> also i'd be a foreigner T_T
20:54:28 <luite> oh wait i forgot that we dutch aren't racist anymore now
20:54:34 <adnam> oh sewet
20:54:38 <luite> since the PVV lost a lot in the most recent election
20:55:35 <adnam> did you know that "Gert" is pronounced "stjärt" which is swedish for "butt"
20:55:41 <luite> PVV doesn't really hate foreigners though, if you're not muslim and not from poland, romania etc, then you've got nothing to worry about, at least if you look western
20:56:10 <adnam> Geert* :/
20:57:10 <donri> stjärtnisse!
20:57:21 <luite> swedish is ok though, most dutch people associate that with IKEA, kottbullar and blonde girls with a funny accent
20:58:00 <adnam> ja
20:58:10 <adnam> i'm also intrigued by this ikea beer i've heard you have
20:58:11 <donri> s/dutch/anyone not from sweden/
20:58:40 <donri> also hockey
20:58:54 <luite> hockey? nah
20:59:07 <donri> oh? i don't know squat about sports
20:59:08 <adnam> i'll miss all the linköping-skellefteå games :((
20:59:09 <luite> in holland, hockey means field hockey
20:59:20 <donri> i have no idea what that means
20:59:22 <luite> we say ice hockey for your kind of hockey
20:59:32 <donri> are you talking about innebandy
20:59:44 <adnam> or bandy
20:59:51 <adnam> probably not bandy :]
20:59:53 <donri> skinnbanjo?
20:59:57 <luite> Landhokey apparently
21:00:03 <donri> hokay
21:00:10 <luite> hockey
21:00:47 <luite> the dutch ladies team is relatively succesful i think, and made the sport a bit more popular here, since some of them are pretty :p
21:01:03 <luite> but "ice hockey" isn't popular here at all
21:01:16 <luite> we only do speed skating, on the 400m track
21:02:42 <adnam> how about baseball
21:03:01 <luite> hm, not popular at all
21:03:09 <adnam> bah!
21:03:11 <adnam> i thought it was
21:03:12 <luite> i think it's mostly soccer here
21:03:17 <adnam> moving to belgium
21:03:18 <luite> and cycling a bit
21:03:19 <donri> korgboll!
21:03:46 <luite> although cycling is much bigger in belgium and france i think
21:05:14 <adnam> baseball is the only sport i really enjoy
21:06:05 <luite> i guess you can watch it on tv here if oyu have digital cable with american channels
21:06:18 <luite> getting swedish tv might be a bit more difficult
21:07:10 <adnam> svtplay.se
21:07:41 <luite> digital cabal usually has some german public, bbc1-4, then belgian public tv, one italian/french/spanish channel etc
21:07:47 <luite> and a lot of international news channels
21:08:28 <luite> cable, not cabal %)
21:09:40 <donri> analog cabal?
21:09:58 <adnam> need to learn dutch anyways!
21:10:34 <adnam> luite: teach me master
21:10:58 <luite> okee laten we beginnen met dit kanaal
21:11:17 <luite> ok, let's start wth this channel
21:11:29 <luite> kanaal = channel, in amsterdam you have canals, canal = gracht
21:11:33 <donri> bättre en bollkalle i kanalen än en kall balle i analen
21:12:57 <adnam> donri: :D:D
21:13:04 <adnam> oh right i forgot what gracht meant
21:14:03 <adnam> jeg kom uit zweden
21:14:09 <luite> hehe
21:14:17 <donri> ich bin ein berliner
21:14:22 <luite> jeg is danish
21:17:30 <luite> adnam: hoe heet je?
21:18:31 <adnam> adam!
21:18:44 <adnam> mijn naam is adam?
21:19:01 <luite> yeah that's correct, although "ik heet adam" would be more common
21:20:32 <adnam> reading dutch is fairly easy
21:20:53 <donri> it's like germans trying to speak swedish
21:21:12 <luite> also a very old joke, "hoe heet je", "heet" is from the verb "heten", to be called/named, but it can also mean "hot". so a guy asks a foreign hooker working in the amsterdam red light district: "hoe heet je?" (how hot you), to which the hooker replies "ik heel heet" (i very hot)
21:21:42 <adnam> meow
21:23:06 <donri> hur heter du / hur het är du
21:23:18 <luite> yeah, in german it's also the same with heiss
21:24:22 <luite> readign swedish is also relatively doable for dutch guys
21:24:57 <donri> it's like swedes trying to speak german!
21:25:02 <luite> hehe
21:26:37 <adnam> gonna lang-8 it up until i'm a master
21:27:28 <luite> adittedly i learned most of my swedish from the swedish chef ;p
21:27:37 <adnam> very good sir
21:28:03 <luite> interestingly swedish books and newspapers have fewer bork than expected :)
21:28:20 <adnam> isn't bork a dutch word
21:28:20 <luite> and i stole a swedish newspaper once because i thought it was a free newspaper
21:28:48 <luite> hm, if it is, i don't know what it means
21:29:35 <adnam> i think were those satellites are is called westerbork or something
21:29:58 <luite> yeah the radio telescope
21:30:39 <adnam> have a friend who's there for work a few times a year
21:32:06 <luite> the village is called Börk in the Drents dialect
21:32:15 <luite> but I'm not sure what it means
21:33:44 <luite> if anything? perhaps from "burcht", stronghold
21:36:02 <adnam> åhå
21:37:34 <adnam> need to find some courses at the uni or something
21:38:41 <luite> fortunately (?) for you, tv shows here are not dubbed, so you can practice reading dutch from the subtitles
21:39:11 <luite> dunno if it's really fortunate, because it lets you practice less with hearing dutch...
21:40:39 <adnam> well i can watch the news as well :P
21:40:42 <adnam> also i hate dubbing
21:40:52 <luite> yeah i'm happy that we don't have it here
21:41:16 <luite> it probably helps making the netherlands one of the countries with the highest percentage of english speakers
21:41:58 <luite> slightly higher than sweden
21:42:06 <luite> and canada :p
21:42:48 <adnam> yeah you seem better than swedes
21:44:24 <luite> according to the eurobarometer 2012 report, 90% of dutch speak english, 89% norway, 86% sweden
21:44:58 <adnam> my thesis examiner is hilarious, he knows english well but he talks with a completely swedish accent
21:46:02 <luite> hehe yeah we also ahve a lot of those here... to us dutchies it's immediately recognizable, but i guess the dutch accent might not be as distinct as the swedish one
21:48:30 <adnam> a lot of the people i've talked to you can't tell their not native englishers
21:48:55 <luite> yes we can english like the best ;p
21:49:28 <luite> i don't speak accent-free english though
21:52:02 <adnam> i have some wierd stuff going on in my mouth