14:14:39 <Taneb> Does Happstack have its own "blessed" templating engine like Snap has Heist and Yesod has Hamlet?
14:15:50 <Taneb> (this is curiosity rather than concern, I quite like heist and I'd use it anyway)
14:18:05 <donri> Taneb: no, but hsp and blaze-html have the best support in support libraries
14:18:17 <Taneb> Thanks
14:18:26 <bergmark> what about HSP?
14:18:35 <bergmark> woops you already said that :(
14:18:39 <donri> :)
14:19:36 <donri> arguably hsp has better support than blaze-html, yes, mostly because it's powerful enough for handling things like web-routes for you
14:20:04 <donri> but blaze-html is supported in happstack-server directly!
14:21:04 <Taneb> And Hamlet and Heist both use blaze-html themselves
14:21:29 <bergmark> i use heist mostly but will probably look into using something else, the type-unsafety is annoying
14:22:13 <donri> hm, not sure about heist there. it has support for converting blaze-html nodes to xmlhtml nodes but it has its own renderer i think?
14:22:36 <donri> anyway there's happstack-heist
14:23:01 <donri> but i think you'd have to roll your own integration for web-routes, reform...
14:24:19 <donri> bergmark: you can use hsp like you use heist, mostly
14:25:11 <donri> not sure you'll gain much type safety then, though...
15:53:33 <mm_freak_> you can't use HSP like heist…  heist is dynamic
15:54:27 <donri> i don't see why not? you can pattern match with harp on hsp nodes, you can construct nodes dynamically
15:55:07 <donri> you can have a custom renderer or XMLGenerator that looks for custom elements
15:55:37 <donri> or do you mean because you can load templates at runtime? could use plugins for that
15:57:15 <mm_freak_> heist is designed to be used that way
15:57:20 <mm_freak_> no plugins needed
15:57:27 <mm_freak_> with plugins you can make everything dynamic
15:57:58 <mm_freak_> the point of heist is that you can outsource template designing to non-programmers
15:58:12 <donri> i'm not trying to say heist isn't useful
16:00:33 <donri> bergmark was saying he was going to look for something to use in place of heist, i was suggesting he might be able to use hsp similar to how he's used to heist, with custom elements and logic-free templates
16:02:48 <bergmark> i don't necessarily wan't to use it similarly
16:03:23 <bergmark> main problem with heist i think is that it's hard to reason about which tags are bound where
16:04:50 <bergmark> <result/> happens to be unbound and then you get <result/> in the output, or it was rebound somewhere and you don't get a warning
16:05:22 <donri> i'd like to see a heist with self-documenting splices and proper use of xml namespaces
16:08:20 <donri> and more load-time safety with optional compile-time safety for static app templates
16:08:50 <donri> so it would refuse to load templates with unknown splices
16:09:04 <donri> should work out well with xml namespaces
16:10:11 <donri> and most importantly, a convention of using hyphenated splice names rather than camelCase!
16:10:18 <bergmark> yeah namespaces will help a lot
16:12:05 <donri> i'd also like to see a headless heist where you can view templates rendered client-side in the browser with splices filled in with placeholder data
16:13:46 <donri> xml schemas generated from the splice metadata
16:16:44 <donri> then add primitive patches for xml to darcs! :)
16:39:21 <mightybyte> bergmark: Now that heist has compiled templates, it should be possible to implement more static checks like warnings for unbound tags.
16:44:12 <mightybyte> Some kind of namespace support would be required though, otherwise you have no idea which tags should be bound.
17:02:48 <stepkut> mm_freak_: how's the form stuff looking?
18:34:53 <mm_freak_> stepcut: still ad hoc experimenting, but promising
18:35:05 <mm_freak_> no stumbling blocks so far =)
20:03:13 <Taneb> happstack-heist isn't very flexible in its routeing
20:03:22 <Taneb> Wait
20:03:24 <Taneb> It is!
20:03:25 <Taneb> :)
20:03:32 <Taneb> Thanks for your help!
20:58:55 <stepcut> :)
23:58:25 <stepkut> I think I am going to convert the clckwrks core stuff to use bootstrap :)
23:58:34 <stepkut> though themes can still use whatever they want.. for now...