00:00:07 <donri> stepcut: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devs/2013-February/000414.html
00:00:28 <donri> this is nice, means we can rely on the compiler instead of custom hacks for hyperdrive
00:00:39 <donri> well, rts not compiler i guess
00:01:14 <stepcut> yup
00:01:21 <stepcut> still need a custom parser though
00:01:30 <donri> :)
00:01:36 <stepcut> I started some work on that, but been pretty busy with clckwrks
00:01:41 <stepcut> new release any day now!
02:46:37 <levi> What's hyperdrive?
03:03:14 <donri> levi: the planned new server backend
03:05:26 <levi> Ah, nifty.
03:05:34 <levi> Have you guys looked at meteor?
03:05:40 <donri> yes
03:06:13 <donri> i want to do something like that with acid-state, netwire and ghcjs
03:09:42 <levi> That would be cool, but perhaps a bit heavyweight on the browser side.
05:28:27 <donri> levi: could be, but worth exploring methinks. ghcjs output is smaller than one would think
05:29:34 <donri> it does dead code elimination, on demand code loading via xhr, google closure compression etc
05:31:11 <donri> or were you thinking of performance?
05:32:31 <donri> luite is working on a new codegen for ghcjs which makes rather fast js code
05:33:57 <levi> Interesting.
05:34:51 <levi> ACTION is fighting with parsec now, trying to write an org-mode parser for pandoc.
10:19:24 <azathoth99> what hap.....  no I wont
10:19:35 <azathoth99> whats happenin?
10:19:40 <azathoth99> hows web haskell world?
10:20:31 <azathoth99> http://luvit.io/ does happs do javascript?
10:28:26 <donri> azathoth99: currently fay and jmacro are the best supported options
10:30:02 <azathoth99> now I am not a web developer, more a unix admin, what is the advantage of using such js libs?
10:31:59 <donri> they're not js libs, they're ways to generate js with haskell
10:36:30 <azathoth99> ok
10:37:12 <azathoth99> now can javascript only make the website fancier? like drag n drop and expand close boxes?  or can it make lean mean sites better as well?
10:39:57 <Entroacceptor> http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-startup/#comment-685047168 :)
10:40:02 <donri> sure why not
10:42:02 <Entroacceptor> but I'm amazed that Haskell has become one of the hip new techs for web development.
10:43:24 <azathoth99> heh
10:43:34 <azathoth99> maybe aolserver and postgresql are best
10:43:42 <Entroacceptor> postgres is the best
10:45:29 <azathoth99> I hate the idea of different web services
10:45:34 <azathoth99> calling each other
10:45:40 <azathoth99> crrrrazzy
10:45:47 <azathoth99> data duplication?
10:45:51 <azathoth99> feature duplication?
10:45:55 <Entroacceptor> I'm in awe how many facebooks there are
10:46:03 <azathoth99> ?
10:46:11 <azathoth99> there are many facebooks?
10:46:16 <azathoth99> huh?
10:46:28 <Entroacceptor> I mean, in having to be so scalable and extensible
10:53:49 <azathoth99> its funny I like a website called cat-v.org and the author writes a bout simplicity
10:53:56 <azathoth99> rc is a shell from plan9
10:54:05 <azathoth99> so the guy wrote cgi rc shell web frameowrk
10:54:10 <azathoth99> and apparently
10:54:14 <azathoth99> its faster than php
10:54:40 <azathoth99> and I can envision since I know shell how easy it is to use the filesystem not a database for the data
10:55:25 <azathoth99> I dont know enough html to write forms yet but i think its not hard and you can parse the response to assign pieces to variables so as to construct update code for the data and to build responses
10:55:44 <azathoth99> then I compare this to a rails3 site I supported on the ops side
10:55:47 <azathoth99> woaaaa nelly
10:55:52 <azathoth99> what a bunch of code
11:00:25 <Entroacceptor> yeah, the cat-v people are crazy
11:02:13 <Entroacceptor> but rails has a different focus
11:05:48 <azathoth99> cat-v people sound smart
11:06:12 <azathoth99> rails felt like an attempt to ignore the power of a relational database by programmers
11:06:20 <azathoth99> so they automate table creation
11:06:30 <azathoth99> but the art of normalization is ignored
11:07:01 <azathoth99> DBA at my work said better to throw it alll out what rails had created than to patch it tiny bit by bit
11:11:50 <Entroacceptor> oh, it is that bad? I've only worked with python's django, that is quite easily to fit to existing db structures
11:13:45 <azathoth99> I dunno about django
11:14:06 <azathoth99> I kinda stink at programming.
11:18:59 <azathoth99> what appeals about happs is the lack of an sql db!
11:19:01 <azathoth99> I LOVE that
11:19:50 <Entroacceptor> well, it's okay :)O
11:20:28 <Entroacceptor> last I tried it was a major pain in Djagno to use models which don't have a DB backend
11:21:39 <azathoth99> dump django
11:21:42 <azathoth99> use happs
11:21:47 <Entroacceptor> happs is old ;)
11:22:10 <Entroacceptor> well, I haven't done much web dev lately
11:22:56 <Entroacceptor> except updating something with php code igniter, which was surprisingly well structured for PHP ;)
11:23:08 <Entroacceptor> but yeah, next thing will be in Happstack or snap
11:23:24 <Entroacceptor> but I'm not totally convinced of acid-state yet
11:23:47 <Entroacceptor> afk
11:24:24 <azathoth99> www.prevayler.org
11:24:29 <azathoth99> this I think is the future
11:24:43 <azathoth99> most nosql are half baked on way to prevayler
11:24:49 <azathoth99> as far as I can see
11:25:05 <azathoth99> I heard yii is php was nice framework
11:25:16 <azathoth99> ossweb seems awesome for tcl too
11:34:36 <Entroacceptor> that's nearly the same as acid-state, isn't it?
11:35:11 <azathoth99> acid state copied prevayler ideas into haskell yes
11:35:17 <azathoth99> but they did it nicely
11:35:26 <azathoth99> not some half ass document db or some bs
11:35:32 <Entroacceptor> are you sure it's been that way around?
11:35:43 <azathoth99> 99%
11:35:48 <azathoth99> prevayler is from 90s
11:35:53 <azathoth99> or early 2000s
11:36:12 <Entroacceptor> oh, why doesn't everyone use it by now?
11:36:36 <azathoth99> http://prevayler.org/old_wiki/Welcome.html look at this for age feeling
11:37:02 <azathoth99> I think its being hushed up like henry george's single tax idea, since it would hurt biz
11:55:02 <Entroacceptor> I tend to not believe in conspiracies
11:56:15 <azathoth99> I think everything is a conspiracy.
11:56:19 <azathoth99> even you
11:56:35 <HugoDaniel> here: http://vigilantcitizen.com/
11:56:48 <HugoDaniel> talking about conspiracy, opera is changing to webkit
11:57:19 <HugoDaniel> its probably the illuminati enforcing new world order by killing presto
12:00:58 <azathoth99> opera shits github out
12:01:09 <azathoth99> I always have to use firefox
12:01:17 <azathoth99> opera is my fav browser now
12:01:28 <azathoth99> whats wrong with presto?
12:03:58 <HugoDaniel> i also dont know... its sad that one less option disapears
12:04:25 <azathoth99> some words about using chromium of the evil empire google
12:04:45 <HugoDaniel> yes :(
12:05:21 <HugoDaniel> and firefox with their xul "issue" also doesn't seem to be going nowhere useful :/
12:05:44 <azathoth99> firefox and seamonkey seem cool
12:05:48 <azathoth99> if a bit slower
12:05:58 <azathoth99> I dont like how its hard to open files in chrome
12:06:08 <azathoth99> feels like weaning people of normal features communism
12:09:17 <HugoDaniel> you can't just say "communism" in freenode
12:09:20 <HugoDaniel> :)
12:09:22 <Entroacceptor> hrhr
16:40:41 <Taneb> I've got a version of happstack-heist that compiles with the latest version of heist
16:41:02 <Taneb> Is there any reason why a patch would be a bad thing?
16:46:01 <stepkut> nope
16:46:04 <stepkut> send a patch and I'll release it
16:49:42 <Taneb> Right, just let me remember how darcs works
16:49:54 <stepkut> darcs record
16:50:05 <stepkut> then, darcs send -o /tmp/name-of-patch.dpatch
16:50:30 <stepkut> then attach the patch to and email and send it to jeremy@n-heptane.com
16:51:03 <sm_> or darcs send -O (to auto-name and save it in the current dir)
16:51:44 <sm> or even just darcs send ?
16:53:29 <stepkut> only if you have a properly configured sendmail
16:58:28 <sm> ACTION would lay money Taneb does
16:58:41 <Taneb> ACTION has no idea
16:58:56 <Taneb> This my first time using darcs
16:59:40 <stepkut> Taneb: darcs is pretty helpful .. it will prompt you for any extra information it needs.
17:00:39 <Taneb> Sent!
17:01:24 <Taneb> I haven't bumped the happstack-heist version because I do not know your versioning policy
17:02:31 <stepkut> got it! thanks!
17:02:55 <Taneb> :D
17:03:19 <Taneb> Just out of curiousity, do you know how many people use happstack-heist?
17:04:49 <stepkut> no idea
17:04:53 <stepkut> nobody tells me anything :)
17:05:42 <stepkut> people only speak up if something is broken.. and even then.. not always
17:06:07 <stepkut> if you want your project to look active.. you put in a lot of bugs so people will talk more on the mailing list ;)
17:07:22 <stepkut> ok.. I think I know how to customize bootstrap now
17:07:31 <Taneb> Or you follow edwardk's method and give anyone who asks about it commit access
17:08:03 <stepkut> :)
17:10:43 <stepkut> alright, happstack-heist-7.0.2 is on hackage now
17:10:45 <stepkut> thanks a ton!
17:10:51 <Taneb> No problem!
17:11:00 <stepkut> hope your darcs experience wasn't too frightening :)
17:11:23 <Taneb> I prefer git, but I'm more used to git
17:11:37 <Taneb> I think it was less scary than when I first tried to use git
17:11:44 <stepkut> :)
17:12:25 <stepkut> git seems far more complex than I have ever had need for
17:13:15 <stepkut> I know how to use 'git clone' and 'git pull' and that is about it :)
17:13:34 <Taneb> git has a fancier documentation website
17:13:51 <stepkut> because it needs one ;)
17:16:49 <Taneb> Anyway, now that I've helped fix a disastrously outdated dependency I will fade into the night